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Old 02-19-2009, 09:08 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Fetch View Post
I've heard a lot of people have ridiculous oil consumption with the older Saturn Twin-Cammers.
The 91's were total POS's. The 92's were basically a complete redesign of everything in the engine bay except for the engine itself (which had a few very minor changes).

Most of these problems are from people using it as a cheap car to get them to work that (in their words) isn't worth the money to do oil changes to. A friend's neighbor has a '93 that ha hasn't changed the oil on for 50,000 miles

Well, no WONDER there's problems with oil consumption and gunk buildup. $1.80 per quart oil and a $2 filter. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by bobc455 View Post
The MMO and seafoam are both top-end cleaners, right?

I used an oil system cleaner and my oil consumption dropped from 1 qt/1000m to 1qt per 3500 miles. I did this because I heard that the oil rings get carboned up & gunky, so I theorized that a good oil system cleaner might free up the oil ring. Sure enough, it worked.

-Bob C.
Yes, but they were both formulated to be able to be used in oil, fuel, and direct application.

The MMO is a really thin penetrating oil that will help break up the gunk over time if applied on top of the piston.

I'm a huge advocate against fluid additives for oil and transmission fluids.
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Old 02-19-2009, 10:11 AM   #13
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I appreciate the depth of your info jeep, but I've already been there/done that.

In your efforts to detail the procedure, I think you've assumed I did something wrong. I didn't put the quart of MMO into 1 cylinder, I put the ENTIRE quart in each cylinder equally, using Chop-sticks placed down inside the chamber I turned the engine by hand until all 4 sticks were equal height. Just saying, two cylinders showed good resistance to "gulping the MMO" and two cylinders just drank it down... leading one to believe those two cylinders have problems.

My PCV line is fine. My breather line was replaced a few months ago.

On another note, not everyone abused these cars. I bought mine at 120k, so who knows what went on before I got it. I know someone who has a '98 that they bought new and practice more strict maintenance than me, and yet, uses 1 quart every time this person fills up his gas tank (roughly 300 miles)
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Old 02-19-2009, 10:39 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jeep45238 View Post
Yes, but they were both formulated to be able to be used in oil, fuel, and direct application.

The MMO is a really thin penetrating oil that will help break up the gunk over time if applied on top of the piston.

I'm a huge advocate against fluid additives for oil and transmission fluids.
I agree with ya on the no additives philosophy. If you buy quality stuff to begin with you should require no additives.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Project84 View Post
I appreciate the depth of your info jeep, but I've already been there/done that.

In your efforts to detail the procedure, I think you've assumed I did something wrong. I didn't put the quart of MMO into 1 cylinder, I put the ENTIRE quart in each cylinder equally, using Chop-sticks placed down inside the chamber I turned the engine by hand until all 4 sticks were equal height. Just saying, two cylinders showed good resistance to "gulping the MMO" and two cylinders just drank it down... leading one to believe those two cylinders have problems.

My PCV line is fine. My breather line was replaced a few months ago.

On another note, not everyone abused these cars. I bought mine at 120k, so who knows what went on before I got it. I know someone who has a '98 that they bought new and practice more strict maintenance than me, and yet, uses 1 quart every time this person fills up his gas tank (roughly 300 miles)

I beat the dickens out of my 97 in high school. 30-50 runs at the 1/4 mile track every Friday night, 3 transmissions and 1 clutch in 3 months. Engine's still ticking and doesn't burn oil. Granted the bottom end doesn't knock only because it's filled with 10W40, but it has never burned oil The other 2 have been driven by sane people.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:26 PM   #16
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well if you're going to fix it you could, you know, do it right?

using cleaning crap like seafoam is going to remove deposits that may be assisting the sealing of rings/selas. when they get old you can lose bits of those parts with the crap when its removed. seafoam has its place, but not in an older engine with high mileage.

first you'd need to determine where its losing oil. is it burning it or leaking? and yea the twin cam saturn engines have crap cam seals which is why they're known to lose oil a lot...amongst other things. so its either seals, worn rings, worn valve guides or even just the valve seals.

a compression tester and a can of oil can help. do the usual compression test. note if any cylinders are low. put a squirt of oil down each cylinder. run test again. all values will increase but note how much. if one was too low and this brings it up to near normal u got fubar'd rings. if not, start looking at the valve seals. this is after checking the seals.

too much bother? get a 'new' engine from the wreckers, those crap engines go cheap. fully inspect it before installing (seals, bearings, rings, etc.) and then you'll have a 'new' engine and very little downtime.

do it right if you're going to. please don't waste time/money with the quick fix garbage.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:43 PM   #17
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well if you're going to fix it you could, you know, do it right?

using cleaning crap like seafoam is going to remove deposits that may be assisting the sealing of rings/selas. when they get old you can lose bits of those parts with the crap when its removed. seafoam has its place, but not in an older engine with high mileage.

first you'd need to determine where its losing oil. is it burning it or leaking? and yea the twin cam saturn engines have crap cam seals which is why they're known to lose oil a lot...amongst other things. so its either seals, worn rings, worn valve guides or even just the valve seals.

a compression tester and a can of oil can help. do the usual compression test. note if any cylinders are low. put a squirt of oil down each cylinder. run test again. all values will increase but note how much. if one was too low and this brings it up to near normal u got fubar'd rings. if not, start looking at the valve seals. this is after checking the seals.

too much bother? get a 'new' engine from the wreckers, those crap engines go cheap. fully inspect it before installing (seals, bearings, rings, etc.) and then you'll have a 'new' engine and very little downtime.

do it right if you're going to. please don't waste time/money with the quick fix garbage.
The S series 1.9L engines do not have camshaft seals... If he's not burning oil on startup, there are very good odds that he needs (at a minimum) a de-glaze on the bores and new rings.

Compression tests are great diagnostics, but not for this situation where he's burning oil but could be fine on compression. A leak down tester is much more appropriate.
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Old 02-20-2009, 04:27 AM   #18
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I'm a huge advocate against fluid additives for oil and transmission fluids.
Okay, but what I'm saying is that it worked.

I use the oil system cleaner all the time, and have never had a problem - in fact in this case it *cured* a problem. And I recommend it to others - it very well might help or cure the problem.

-BC
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:40 AM   #19
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Bob, please PM me or reply here w/ the oil additive you used.

Thanks
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:15 AM   #20
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Will do.

Just for clarity, it is only a "system cleaner" that you dump in and run the engine 5 minutes before an oil change. It's not an additive, you don't leave it in there.

--Bob C.
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