Realize the full Performance/Economy Potential of a Honda Civic VX

[suspendedhatch]

I replaced the radiator and changed the radiator fan on and off temperatures. I would prefer to keep the engine at 200 F but that would make the fan stay on all the time. Turning the fan off at 205 seems to work best. Close enough.

I think someone may have tried to steal my car. It's possible I left the hood on the safety latch and the rain got on the hood pin and triggered it. The alarm went off in the middle of the night and the paging remote indicated a hood breach. Then I had to replace the hood cable because it wasn't popping the hood anymore. The tip was broken off at the latch side so that the cable couldn't brace itself against the sheething. Seems like an odd coincidence. Maybe they weren't expecting a hood pin, maybe they were planning on cutting the siren and couldn't find it. They didn't go after the battery though. Maybe they saw a single cam and decided it wasn't worth it. I think I'll put a webcam on my garage and see what happens. That's how my brother caught a neighborhood kid stealing his beer. I'm also going to block the underside of the latch with some sheet metal. It's too easy to stick a screwdriver in there and pop it. Hope the cable doesn't break again though.

While I had the bumper cover off I decided it was a good time to remove the 5mph bumper supports. I only put it off until after I moved anyway. The back bumper was full of gravel and the support was caked in mud. The lady I bought the car from lived on a ranch and the whole backseat, hatch, engine bay, and underside has a thick layer of dirt when I bought it.

[suspendedhatch]

That was a great post, but the best way to deal with haters is to ignore them. They're just looking for attention. If he had a valid point then he would deserve a valid reply. People can criticize my build; that's fine. It's my car built to suit my needs and no one else is going to tell me what my needs are. But he didn't even bother to understand the build at all. He just took a shot in the dark based on his prejudices.

I don't want to use special driving techniques to get the best possible mileage. I don't think that's a realistic figure that you can compare to other cars. Some of those techniques are dangerous or just annoying. I want to get the best possible mileage w/out "cheating". By driving like a normal person and close to the way they drive when the determine the mpg to put on the window sticker.

FE alone is not my goal. When FE is your goal, that also means that saving money is your goal. So almost no modifications are justified because they take too long to pay off. Well to me that's just boring. Having a gutless car is also boring. Having an impressive mpg figure is cool, but not when people can dismiss your car as being gutless or looking like Flight Of The Navigator. I'm not dissing anyone. I'm just stating my personal interests.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by monroe74

No. VXs do well, but not typically that well. If you aggregate the gas logs here you see that the overall average is something like 45 mpg. Certain people never beat 50 mpg, and most people never beat 60 mpg. Only a handful of VXs in the garage have beat 57 mpg more than once or twice, and only 2 VXs in the garage (out of about 25) have a 90-day average over 57. So your expectation is too high.

Also, this car was heavily loaded and going fast. Altitude may also have been an issue.

Ok well according to fueleconomy.gov the civic VX (fed) gets like 47/56 and the 1996 HX 39/45, but if most people are getting 45MPG, should I expect an equal decrease in the HX's mileage in terms of relative mileage between the HX and VX or should I expect equal mileage between the HX and VX? Has anybody determined whether or not this mileage decrease is due to the engines being old and not tuned up?

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by suspendedhatch

I replaced the radiator and changed the radiator fan on and off temperatures. I would prefer to keep the engine at 200 F but that would make the fan stay on all the time. Turning the fan off at 205 seems to work best. Close enough.

I think someone may have tried to steal my car. It's possible I left the hood on the safety latch and the rain got on the hood pin and triggered it. The alarm went off in the middle of the night and the paging remote indicated a hood breach. Then I had to replace the hood cable because it wasn't popping the hood anymore. The tip was broken off at the latch side so that the cable couldn't brace itself against the sheething. Seems like an odd coincidence. Maybe they weren't expecting a hood pin, maybe they were planning on cutting the siren and couldn't find it. They didn't go after the battery though. Maybe they saw a single cam and decided it wasn't worth it. I think I'll put a webcam on my garage and see what happens. That's how my brother caught a neighborhood kid stealing his beer. I'm also going to block the underside of the latch with some sheet metal. It's too easy to stick a screwdriver in there and pop it. Hope the cable doesn't break again though.

While I had the bumper cover off I decided it was a good time to remove the 5mph bumper supports. I only put it off until after I moved anyway. The back bumper was full of gravel and the support was caked in mud. The lady I bought the car from lived on a ranch and the whole backseat, hatch, engine bay, and underside has a thick layer of dirt when I bought it.

They're not 5mph bumpers, they're 2.5mph bumpers. They haven't had 5mph bumpers since 1982. Why would you remove it anyways?

[monroe74]

Originally Posted by *************

according to fueleconomy.gov the civic VX (fed) gets like 47/56

The EPA has revised their rating system. Under the old system, the VX (Federal) is rated at 47/56/51. Under the new system, the VX (Federal) is rated at 39/50/43. The new numbers are a lot more realistic than the old ones.

When you quote EPA numbers, it's a good idea to indicate if you're talking about the old rating system or the new rating system. Otherwise there's a tendency to create confusion.

and the 1996 HX 39/45

Under the old rating system, the numbers are 39/45/41. Under the new rating system, the numbers are 33/41/36.

if most people are getting 45MPG, should I expect an equal decrease in the HX's mileage in terms of relative mileage between the HX and VX

I'm not sure I understand your question. I think the new EPA ratings are pretty realistic, for both cars. Maybe that answers your question.

should I expect equal mileage between the HX and VX?

No.

Has anybody determined whether or not this mileage decrease is due to the engines being old and not tuned up?

It's not at all clear what "mileage decrease" you're talking about. The aggregate average in the garage here (45 mpg) is above what is predicted under the new EPA rating system (43 mpg). As far as "not tuned up," I think the results generally indicate that the VXs in the garage here are running well.

They haven't had 5mph bumpers since 1982.

It's true that the US law changed in 1982. But the law in Canada still calls for 5 mph (although the rules are a little different in other respects). The VX was built in Canada.

Originally Posted by suspendedhatch

the best way to deal

Thanks for the compliment. And I understand your point, but I'm really not posting for his benefit, but rather for the benefit of onlookers who can be misled by incorrect information.

[suspendedhatch]

Originally Posted by monroe74

Thanks for the compliment. And I understand your point, but I'm really not posting for his benefit, but rather for the benefit of onlookers who can be misled by incorrect information.

I know there are some people here that view engine swaps on a VX as sacrilege. I understand that perspective, however, being that the VX is now between 13 and 16 years old, and that most of them are over 200k miles, I view it as resurrecting an old car that was on it's way out. The car I bought had the original clutch on it! It had the usual oil leaks. I'm not going to recondition an old motor, let alone rebuild it, when I could save a ton of money and time by getting a JDM replacement. And if I'm going to do that, I'm going to get the best engine that I can afford to put in. "Best" meaning the best for my priorities with no regard for anyone else's opinion.

I chose a VTEC-E motor in the spirit of the VX. I believe that if the VX came out in 1996 it would have had this motor in it. Honda wanted a combination of power and economy with priority leaning toward the economy side. They didn't use the 8 valve motor as their foundation. They didn't lower the displacement to 1.3 like they did in some countries. They did everything they could within reason with what was available at the time to give this car some good low end and a decent peak hp. I'm simply picking up where they left off.

FE is a work in progress. Cast your judgment now if you will. You'll look pretty stupid when this thread reaches page 5.

[suspendedhatch]

Things I'm Doing that Don't Help FE
Driving 70-80mph
Revving past 3000 RPM regularly
Running a D15Z7 instead of the D15Z1
Running the short geared VTEC tranny
Running 240 CC Injectors
Running performance engine/suspension parts
Not doing any hypermiling besides engine braking
Running soft compound summer Tires
Running wider and larger diameter wheels/tires
Carrying passengers, luggage, and tools
Keeping the windows down and the moon roof propped open
Tuning for drive-ability not purely for FE

Yet I'm enjoying the crap out of my car and getting 38mpg mixed driving!

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by monroe74

The EPA has revised their rating system. Under the old system, the VX (Federal) is rated at 47/56/51. Under the new system, the VX (Federal) is rated at 39/50/43. The new numbers are a lot more realistic than the old ones.

When you quote EPA numbers, it's a good idea to indicate if you're talking about the old rating system or the new rating system. Otherwise there's a tendency to create confusion.



Under the old rating system, the numbers are 39/45/41. Under the new rating system, the numbers are 33/41/36.



I'm not sure I understand your question. I think the new EPA ratings are pretty realistic, for both cars. Maybe that answers your question.



No.



It's not at all clear what "mileage decrease" you're talking about. The aggregate average in the garage here (45 mpg) is above what is predicted under the new EPA rating system (43 mpg). As far as "not tuned up," I think the results generally indicate that the VXs in the garage here are running well.



It's true that the US law changed in 1982. But the law in Canada still calls for 5 mph (although the rules are a little different in other respects). The VX was built in Canada.



Thanks for the compliment. And I understand your point, but I'm really not posting for his benefit, but rather for the benefit of onlookers who can be misled by incorrect information.

I'm going by the old EPA numbers. The old EPA numbers have to be obtainable, the question is, how obtainable are they. The EPA's estimation for MPG on older cars for their new testing system is definately not perfect, if not flawed.

Here is an example: Official EPA MPG on old sytem for a toyota FJ cruiser is 17/21, they estimated its MPG under the new system as 15/19. However, this is for the 2007 FJ cruiser, a new model, if you look at the 2008 which WAS tested under the new system, its MPG is 16/20.

So I want to know why people aren't getting the MPG based off of the old EPA numbers, is it because it's truely not obtainable or is it because they just don't care enough to eek out that extra MPG.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by suspendedhatch

Things I'm Doing that Don't Help FE
Driving 70-80mph
Revving past 3000 RPM regularly
Running a D15Z7 instead of the D15Z1
Running the short geared VTEC tranny
Running 240 CC Injectors
Running performance engine/suspension parts
Not doing any hypermiling besides engine braking
Running soft compound summer Tires
Running wider and larger diameter wheels/tires
Carrying passengers, luggage, and tools
Keeping the windows down and the moon roof propped open
Tuning for drive-ability not purely for FE

Yet I'm enjoying the crap out of my car and getting 38mpg mixed driving!

Shouldn't the D15Z7 get the same mileage as the D15Z1 if you keep it below 2500rpm and drive it the same?

[suspendedhatch]

Originally Posted by *************

Shouldn't the D15Z7 get the same mileage as the D15Z1 if you keep it below 2500rpm and drive it the same?

Possibly, but why should I care? I didn't go through all this trouble and expense to let my grandmother drive the car. It's a rev happy motor. It responds to mods. It responds to throttle. When there's no cars around, I'm going to have a blast with it within what I consider to be safe limits. All while averaging 38 mpg and hopefully exceeding 50 mpg on long road trips.

Hate to sound like a 19 year old when I'm 29 but this is my third or fourth project car and the culmination of all the lessons I learned from previous disappointments.