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Old 05-31-2008, 05:53 AM   #61
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HeHe they can't win. They can only loose a little less.

SUV cuts in front of me:

Old me-#$%^&*(&^%$%^&*( Moron!

New me Ahhhh-my aero assistant-7 more MPG.

Race to the next light in a timed zone:

Old me-probably close behind him.

New me-glad to have to dummy to activate light sensor for me to coast through that light.


Old me-only downshift when you are ready to use that gear for acceleration.

New me-downshifting to keep engine at 1100-1500 RPM. In proper gear to accelerate at proper time.


Old me- maintain highest speed possible without getting a ticket- averaged one every ten years, passed by a cop countless times to ticket person in front of me doing a couple MPH more.

New me-Ahhh coast down that puppy, see just how far you can actually coast. I can remember 3 examples in my 20 mile trip that I coast .5 mile, with elevation changes of less than 15-20 feet.

Starting my car

Old me-Crank it up then hook up seat belt, let off brake, put it in gear and take off.

New me-Turn ignition on, belt, gear, brake, garage door up completely, start and go immediately, with perfect engine clutch match at 1000 RPM.

Last night my wife asked me why I coasted 200 feet past my driveway, as we were coasting back to the driveway.

I told her it was another 4 tenths of a tenth of a mile on the odometer. I had shut the engine off as I entered my neighborhood and coasted the last 3.5 tenths of a mile.

I back my car down the 10 foot in 75 foot grade and park in the garage. It saves me a microscopic amount of fuel, but every bit adds up.

Think of DFSO as shutting the engine off without having to go through all the effort it takes to fo through a process.

I think DFSO is highly underrated if you drive a route with 26 traffic lights in 20 miles, with most of them concentrated in a couple of areas.


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Old 08-22-2008, 08:36 AM   #62
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Smile Things to understand... HHO generators..

Brute force electrolysis is OK for test environments but in a car application you need to keep your plate gap voltage to 2.0v per gap per cell. If you don't have this you will not be happy with your cell on all levels. 13.5 volts using a 7 plate config for 1 cell +nnnnn- will give you 2.0 volts per plate gap. Using tap water and sodium hydroxide your water will stay clean. Electrolysis accurse at 1.25v. Anything over this voltage heat is created and muck in your water. When using neutral plates sealing the edges plates will prevent current leakage. Once you reach 2.0v per plate gape then add electrolyte to bring up your amperage for good production.

I've posted vids on youtube under this screen name. Enjoy your new results.


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Old 08-22-2008, 09:25 AM   #63
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I have never produced hydrogen at 2 volts and below. My best production is between 5 and 5.5 volts using NaOH and distilled water. I do NOT get sludge; the electrolyte remains clear.

If you use tap water you have NO idea what is in the electrolyte. Tap water here is very high in calcium. Other places have high concentrations of iron. Other areas have sodium and even selenium.

I have found that operating temperature is of utmost importance.

I am not trying to be argumentative, it is just that what works for one person may produce entirely different results for another. THAT is what we must understand.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:15 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by nsgrossman View Post
Hey everyone, I finally finished my HHO Generator (mostly) I'm missing a few pieces but otherwise entirely finished. I'm getting pretty good results, just need to make a few adjustments. Any suggestions are, as always, greatly appreciated! The link to my video run through is below. Thanks for viewing!

HHO Generator Walk Through

What are you using for the container?
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Old 08-23-2008, 02:09 AM   #65
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Send a message via MSN to CryingStreetRacer Send a message via Yahoo to CryingStreetRacer
...Are you serious?...

I do not pretend I am very gifted in spelling or structure. Proceed accordingly//

Originally Posted by Rower4VT View Post
..The amount of "bubbles" formed by an HHO generator (really an H2+O2) generator)...
Really? First off, you mean 2(H2)+O2 generator. If you're going to grill people on the law of conservation of energy, at least get your quantities correct.
Originally Posted by Rower4VT View Post
There is NO scientific basis for this.
WRONG. The idea behind this is using energy that is already present to do something usefull with it. Like using a current that is normally wasted to produce a gas that IS useable. Or to harness heat from the engine to raise the temperate of the water even slightly to require less energy from a current. Your single thought argument to the reason this DOESN'T work is also the major reason is DOES work. Most of the energy from gasoline combustion is in the form of heat. What is being done with said heat? Nothing. The bottum line is that you are looking at things too small. You are concentrating on one VERY small part of the entire system. As a fellow chemist, I am disappointed.
Originally Posted by Rower4VT View Post
The falsities, lies, and lack of scientific knowledge associated with HHO generators just supports the fact that it's all a scam. I suppose many people still believe in pyramid schemes also...but no, no, they're not a scam!
Fine, people lie to sell things. This is nothing new. But I highly doubt you rant and rave about politics or why gas prices are the way they are. Or how about the mark-up on cigarettes while your at it? Quit *****ing and let people have their fun. At the very least we might find something usefull to do with our time other than make half-thought arguments in the wrong place and at the wrong time.
Drive it like you stole it. Then go faster.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:03 AM   #66
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Cool read, I'm glad someone did it and documented it. But what you DIDN'T do and which therefore makes this whole thread and your $300 effort useless, is that you didn't USE your device or document any results. Where did you go? When I tried this when I was in highschool I didn't use plates or pulsing and it became pretty clear the large draw on my electrical system was going to drop my 8MPH even further, so I declared it a failure. But now with the pulsing and some people using AC across the plates and the close spacing and using a base (previously I was always told an acid was best) have me really interested again. So I would really like to know your results.

Next, Rower was just commenting on how it's stupid people call it HHO, I've seen people on other boards think they're creating H which would never ever happen. You're creating H2 and O2 and as you said they will be in a 2:1 ratio, also called Brown's Gas.

Also something new I've only seen in this thread, how can people say they're using 'waste' energy to do something useful? There is never any 'waste' energy coming from the alternator, any energy it produces is hard earned by burning gasoline at whatever horribly inefficient (~30% I thought) combustible process your engine uses and then being driven by a belt (I've heard anywhere from 60-80% efficient). As others have said, try jumping someone or starting with a dead battery or even turning your blinker on, you can tell the engine is lugging more, has more of a load on it and I'm sure with a SG you'd see increased fuel consumption.

Now as RW said, because engines are more efficient under load we're not being hit as bad as possibly could be. And I can totally see how possibly having some H2 could help burning, definately having more O2 will help. I think we should be using O2 tanks to reduce emissions instead of extra gasoline and platinum, but that's another story. But I'm still very leary that this extra amount could help enough to justify the increased load.

I've always thought we should make an efficient generator and use it at home to fill old NOX tanks and use it in the same way, for a boost in efficiency and power when needed. Too bad it's so hard to store and transport H2. Good mention on the ethonal, but I like to complain more about pushing the Hydrogen cell technology. That's great that H2 + O2 generates water, woopee, too bad it is so inefficient to create and store and there's no way you'd set up a distribution network for it. The Fed Gov is dumping a lot of money into this and it really drives me crazy, it's so stupid. Why not just design cities better in the first place? An extra lane or extra expressway is NOT the answer. If you want to build on existing infrastructure and still have some 'independace' and batteries are too inefficient in your view then go crazy and build power lines over the streets and give cars contactor antennaes. I think that'd be sweet, electrical cars with less batteries and some capitors and some main routes with places you can recharge as you drive.
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:08 PM   #67
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My Reactor

I have built several HHO generators and have found success. There are several critical points that have to be exact, like high quality stainless steel for EVERYTHING in the reaction chamber, but you can SKYROCKET your mileage using one and small device to deceive your oxygen sensors. Everyone will bash you for it (Watch the responses that are sure to come) saying its impossible because it violates this law of thermal dynamics or these physics fundamentals but if you just build the damn thing and keep dialing it in you can do this yourself better than with the CRAP for sale on the web. I got exciting results on my very first try. You will need to be able to weld or have access to someone who can. You can get everything you need at Ace hardware and Home depot or Lowe's.

I will include some videos I made and posted to youtube that will give you a general idea of what is involved. The second video is one of my first reactors so ignore the insulated copper wire and solder. It was an experimental prototype not intended for long term use.
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Old 09-13-2008, 12:24 AM   #68
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all i can say is read this:

dont be ****bags and argue against this.. start a anti-hydrogen thread if you feel so compelled to do so. Some how you guys have enough time to write up huge essays meant for grade school on why it shouldnt work while we are pumpin hydrogen into our cars. (whether this may be conventional or not)

anyone replicated this specific generator or would attempt this?
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:48 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by acetone marty View Post
Every post i go to theres rower calling hho a scam, nobody could of said it better than hdenter. When i look at rowers post i see ethanol or e85, i dont mean to be ignorant rower when i say this but it looks like you run ethanol in your car now that is the biggest documented scam there has ever been. It is the worst fuel we could ever use it takes way more energy to make it than we will ever achieve in our motors, has lower btus than even propane,the mileage goes down, and we are paying more at the grocery store because we are turning our food into gas. Countrys like brazil are clear cutting their rain forests at an unprecedented rate to grow more crops to sell to U.S to make more ethanol which in turn creates more co2 and global warming. Sometimes we dont know how things work even our brightest cant explain something doesnt mean its not working. You sound like a intelligent person with education try to be open minded, use your knowledge of science and chemistry to maybe help us figure out how to make these systems work on all vehicles not just some. You want the same thing we all do save money so we can use it for other fun things not just fill up our tanks and exist.

Now, That is true, But you are so long. The point is, you dont have as good Mpg. however the fuel is cheaper. so if you figure out how much 20MPG costs with reg fuel, vs E-85. You will see you still save with E-85.

With hydrogen, as well are doing is using leftover power from the engine, to add more fuel, Therefore giving an increase.

The technology does work. That is why your able to add subs and amps into a vechile with the power allready supplied.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:00 PM   #70
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The power (additional amperage) is available at a cost in gasoline.

That seems to be what most proponents seem to not realize or choose to ignore.

Its not free electricity you are using.

It's additional electricity demanded from your charging system that requires the engine to burn more fuel to produce the additional power to drive the alternator to charge your 20 amps.

If it was free why not hook it up to your house and get that electricity for free!


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