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Old 12-27-2006, 08:43 PM   #21
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I don't think that's so true, a lot of small cheap cars are still offered in manuals. True, they might be getting rarer, but I still find them easy enough to find.

(edit) whoops, not supposed to be replying to the clencher, was directed towards Zpiloto
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Old 12-28-2006, 06:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red91sit
I don't think that's so true, a lot of small cheap cars are still offered in manuals. True, they might be getting rarer, but I still find them easy enough to find.

(edit) whoops, not supposed to be replying to the clencher, was directed towards Zpiloto
Mt's are not common here. Its 99% automatics. The last two weeks Ive been out auto shoping. Of all the new small cars sold in my area. I only found 2ea. Yaris 3 doors with mt's in them. Not one Versa, Fit, Civic, Sentra, Corolla. None! No I4 Accords. It was really sad. I dont know how many sale's people I asked to see this car or that car with a MT. The question alone baffled sales people.

Im my area folks have become unskilled lazy slouths when it comes to driving. There cell phone, PDA, food and other stuff are more important than driving.

psy
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Old 12-28-2006, 01:12 PM   #23
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DaX -

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Originally Posted by DaX
...for fuel economy...not your leg.
That's what my wife (bum left knee) and friend say (bum left knee), but my left leg never gets tired from shifting. I have been driving stick since 1983, so I guess I just don't notice it. My Mom is almost 80 and she drives stick (but I wish she drove an auto).

In autos I have to fold my left leg under the seat to keep from hitting the "imaginary clutch" that is now the brake (ouch!). If I got an auto (damn those CVTs for getting better EPA MPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!), I would make a harness for my left leg to keep it from jerking forward to hit the clutch.

The only place I would consider owning an auto is San Francisco.

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Old 12-28-2006, 01:16 PM   #24
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Hello -

What about CVTs? Since I am a manual transmission lover, I am bummed that they get better EPA MPG, but what is your opinion of them? Since they advertise "infinite gearing", they should always be using their engine in it's sweet spot, right? Is a CVT not an auto for the purpose of this thread?

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Old 12-28-2006, 06:09 PM   #25
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CVT's SUCK!!!

The idea is sound. And they are finally almost worth while. There claim to fame is keeping the car in motion on the torque curve. But what happens if you want to use the HP you ask? They are awful. Worse than a hydo automatic. All the electronic control makes them some what useful.

They first showed up many years ago as a control device's in manufacturing and other applications. And soon fell out of favor. Why would you want a CVT to drive a production line when a VFD / Variable Frequency Drive will do it better.

Ive seen myself 7 or 8 major diff. designs over the years as there thrown out to the junk heap.

Most automotive designs are the simplest and cheapest to build. Common is the belt with two variable pulleys or sheaves if you will. They open and close independently of each other to give you near infinite gearing. I would guess these CVT's production cost are at least as cheap at a manual tranny if not cheaper. So you can bet the auto manufactures are really going to sink the greedy teeth in them.

As for drivablity there ok as long as there in a cheap ,,, no go car. If you want to pass somebody and hammer the throttle on the floor. They kinda freak out as they start whipping things around and the pulley's start open and closing to find the HP ratio if you will. Its a real ebrow raiser if you do it in say a Nissian Murano,,, or what ever that ugly looking cross over SUV thing is they have.

Hybrids seem to get them now days cause there control programing is suited very well to them. But theres no comparing say Insight CVT to a mt Insight or a CVT HCHI to a mt HCHI. And in the CVT Insight I don't think it got lean burn like the mt. What idiot college boy thought that one up?

I really wanted a HCHII till it was announced CVT only. And drum rear brakes. No mt and rear disc brakes. Screw them. I could have possible got drunk and bs'd my way around the drum brakes or retro fitted something on it. But the CVT was a sure fire way to break a deal for me.

And all this flap about slightly higher EPA ratings for AT cars is bogus. I have not seen one AT 8th Gen Civic driver get anywhere close to what I can get out of my mt 06 Civic. Some on extended hwy trips see the 41 to 42 mpg I see in none hypermiling mode. But no better. And there a pain to hypermile. I can go out right now and rip out a 42 mpg segment of 20 miles or so in my wifes slush box 05 Accord EX I4. And then go out and put 3 to 5 mpg on that in a I4 mt Accord. And I did just that at our Honda dealer. Sales force just didn't believe the mpg I could get out of the Accord. So when I bought my Civic. We took a ride in the wifes Accord with the SGI and a ride in a demo LXse I4 5mt. 4 mpg better than the worthless AT in the wifes car.

I hear of folks complaining about there mpg in the new Civics. Most are AT cars in bigger citys. 22 to 27 mpg is there claim of city mpg. Second tank on my car. Car not even broke in. Im out doing 0 to 60 and 60 to 100 mph runs. With and without a/c. All the windows down, a/c on driving the holy crud out of the car. I mean beating on the car hard. Cornering the crap out of it. Spun it out a few times. Just pure abuse! And it posted 29 mpg.

Some folks may need a AT. Health issues and such. But for most its a cop out. Stuff like I live in a big city with bad traffic. I don't want to work a clutch... <<<< Thats a real common cop out. But the fact is most cant drive a MT. Heck they would have to think. And it would limit the cell phone, PDA, laptop, eating and personnel hygiene time.

My hips, knees and feet hurt alot now days. My right ankle is collapsing. Thats why they make tape, splints and surgery. If I get so bad I cant drive a mt. Its time to stop driving.

Cause AT's SUCK!!!!

psy
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Old 12-28-2006, 06:20 PM   #26
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Get a DSG type tranny, best of both worlds.
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:30 PM   #27
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psyshack -

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyshack
CVT's SUCK!!!

The idea is sound. And they are finally almost worth while. There claim to fame is keeping the car in motion on the torque curve. But what happens if you want to use the HP you ask? They are awful. Worse than a hydo automatic. All the electronic control makes them some what useful.

...snip...

I really wanted a HCHII till it was announced CVT only. And drum rear brakes. No mt and rear disc brakes. Screw them. I could have possible got drunk and bs'd my way around the drum brakes or retro fitted something on it. But the CVT was a sure fire way to break a deal for me.

...snip...

My hips, knees and feet hurt alot now days. My right ankle is collapsing. Thats why they make tape, splints and surgery. If I get so bad I cant drive a mt. Its time to stop driving.

Cause AT's SUCK!!!!

psy
WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!! That's what I wanted to hear. I was so pissed when Honda didn't offer a new Hybrid with a stick. That was my deal breaker. I blame the "Prius effect" where techno-idiots thought they were making a sophisticated point that the Civic was "less" of a hybrid than the Prius (which is also, technically, NOT a hybrid if you want to parse hairs and look at the original definition).

I'm gonna use your words in the future when people go boo hoo and make excuses for using an auto.

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Old 12-28-2006, 10:48 PM   #28
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the reason the insight gets worse mileage with the CVT is that, that tranny is keeping the engine running with the lowest emisions possible, much lower then what the MT insight spews, it was tuned for clean burning, not fuel sipping, simaler reasons as to why the first generation toyota hybrid got bad mileage, the engine would start up, and keep running untill the catolitic converter was fully warmed up.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryland
the reason the insight gets worse mileage with the CVT is that, that tranny is keeping the engine running with the lowest emisions possible, much lower then what the MT insight spews, it was tuned for clean burning, not fuel sipping, simaler reasons as to why the first generation toyota hybrid got bad mileage, the engine would start up, and keep running untill the catolitic converter was fully warmed up.
The Insight 5MT has lean burn. The CVT dosent. That is the NOX trade off. The CVT has nothing to do with it.
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Old 01-01-2007, 02:21 PM   #30
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I am reading very meaningful discussions here! CVTs are good. My only worry right now is do they, like the regular auto transmissions, weigh more than manual ones. If they do, then the weight problem may bring their mpg numbers down to a level lower than that achieved by the manual ones.
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