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Old 01-27-2010, 04:14 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by drifttec101 View Post

Why spend the money on dryer vent hoses when we could all just relocate the air intake sensor? The whole idea of the WAI is just to detune the car so it's making less power. What I'd like to do is seal off the hole that my AIT sensor is located in, and then just allow the sensor to read underhood temps, which reach into the 150 F range easily according to my scan gauge. Meanwhile, I'll continue to allow ambient air to come into my engine. Yeah, I realize this is just a trick, but like I said the whole idea is just to detune your engine.
no no

you dont want to detune your car to start, thats at the end of fuel saving when you're really getting good at ignition and timing... keep the ratio the same... don't keep the air cold and give it less fuel, this will most likely cause detonation because that's what detuning does, warm the air but not too much if you're worried about running too hot (move the pipe around and use a therm sensor) and then you could change the resistance on the ait sensor so at least everything is closer to where it should be... I would however not try to add resistance to your AIT sensor wiring unless you know what you're doing in terms of resistance in proportion to signal...(know your math, however if you do a good wai setup and the air is nice and warm and not too much power lost then stick with it, Warm air is ok for your car, because cars are made for the desert and extreme cold, but they function better and with less effort while hot.

adding resistance will detune your car(know what you're doing)

I've found this works better with Automatic Transmissions but you can get used to it on manuals because you need to gas it more and that makes taking off from first gear odd sometimes.. but i've used it on my manual for a year now and gotten rid of the racing clutch that came with the car.. I think when it gets too hot near a light in your air box or whatever, it really can change the amount of power available in your engine at that very moment having been leaned out almost completely at times depending on the car while sitting in traffic...

if you are wondering how to add resistance, btw, you would use a resistor
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:23 PM   #42
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Theories vary, but I think it's pretty well agreed that the A/F ratio doesn't change, as the O2 sensor will read the lean condition and cause the computer to compensate. Also, most modern cars have a Mass Air Flow sensor that tells them how much air comes in, regardless of its density (it's not a Volume Air Flow sensor).

Here's my guess (taking cues from BEEF to jog my memory, it's been a while since a major WAI discussion):
Less dense air still has the same ratio of oxygen, and since you're still getting the same mass of air you'll still use the same amount of fuel. You save in reduced pumping losses when you're forced to open the throttle more. You save by recycling some of the heat energy that you were otherwise going to waste into the atmosphere; now, instead, that goes back into your engine. By using less dense air, you are effectively decreasing your displacement because you just can't get as much air (and therefore fuel) into the cylinder.

drifttec101, what kind of car do you drive? Some cars respond well to WAI, some don't. The same goes for grille blocking...my current vehicles are safe with 100% blocking, some people can't get away with blocking much at all.
this too
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:35 PM   #43
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Reducing weight won't necessarily help anyway. There's a link in my sig about it. In short, most cars do not gain any FE from weight loss, especially if driven by a hypermiler.

33% over EPA is easy in my VW, and not impossible in my GMC (which has an automatic).
it saves your transmission!!, less crunch..

but
also at high speeds if your looking for savings like 60mph + aerodynamics have an ever increasing effect with speed, so if you're going to be doing alot of highway driving I would look into that.. but with aerodynamics the savings dont start till 20-30mph
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:29 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by SentraSE-R View Post
John's claimed 50% FE improvement from simple addition of an HAI just doesn't match with reality, especially since he's making that claim based on a single tank's results.
ROFL, yeah, I lied. It was all a hoax. GOTCHA?!??? Wait, no, I must've filled the gas tank up on a 90* incline. Maybe that was it.

I'm pretty sure it was reality when I was doing the math on my phone in my car 6 times in a row checking and rechecking it to make sure I wasn't crazy.

I only drive 8,000 miles per year. My 100% highway commutes only account for about 1,000 of those miles. Checking my gaslog would show you since then, conditions have never been the same during my 100% highway driving, and I've still achieved 36-38 mpg. 46mpg may have been my "perfect storm" but I'll take it.

There are probably dozens of members here who carry gas logs showing 25% above EPA city, what's insane about 50% above highway? There are members here recording 100% above highway EPA.... and I'm the faker for making real world gains less than those? I'm abandoning this thread due to lack of support... and because I never thought this forum to be a place I had to defend myself and my accomplishments. I'm sorta turned away by this.

Really, don't address me any further, I'm not going to respond.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:39 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by spotaneagle View Post
it saves your transmission!!, less crunch..

but
also at high speeds if your looking for savings like 60mph + aerodynamics have an ever increasing effect with speed, so if you're going to be doing alot of highway driving I would look into that.. but with aerodynamics the savings dont start till 20-30mph
in response to weight vs gas mileage

2008 infiniti g35 is 3532 lbs gets 25 mpg highway 306hp 3.5v6

2008 infiniti g35x 3,704lbs gets 23 mpg highway 306hp 3.5v6

soo.. that shows that about 172lbs might mean something

i reduced my car 100lbs and it shifts much better
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:51 PM   #46
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the G35x is all wheel drive where as the G35 is rear wheel drive.

I didn't check on gear ratios (for the trans and diffs) which may or may not be a factor.

you have to consider all factors for the difference in mileage. there may also be differences in the motor that aren't openly talked about.

there is a reason that it weighs almost 200 lbs more. it's not just because they put more bling in it.

for a real weight test, get someone to ride with you (preferably about the weight that you plan to remove) and see how your mileage changes. my car sees very little difference in mileage with just me vs me and my buddy (extra 200ish pounds)
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:18 PM   #47
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The whole point to this thread was to show that all mods we do essentially detune your car, and a shortcut to doing that would be to press the gas peddal less. If you put your car on a dyno with the hot air intake, then with a normal air intake you'll see power loss with the HAI. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that.

What I'm getting at is that driving to the hardware store and spending a little bit of money is money and fuel you could have saved by: 1 not driving and 2 not pressing the gas peddal as hard.

Don't waste time on some miracle fuel saver, just drive more conservatively. You wouldn't waste time and money on some cure all miracle pill would you? Well actually Americans do that all the time... it's a problem.

Furthermore, no one is calling anyone a liar. There's a difference between being a liar and being misinformed. If the OEM could improve efficiency by 50% or 100% by some simple modification they would do it. When you log your gas mileage real world conditions will vary your results wildly! I propose that you would need a solid year of testing with a WAI and then another year with a normal intake, under exactly the same operator conditions (driver) to see any sort of definitive evidence on what's working.

Plus different computers operate under different parameters. My 2004 dodge neon will adapt to changing operating conditions in order to stay within factory specs and maintain maximum efficiency at all times. Even performance modifications are "nulled" out with the Next Generation Controller (NGC) from Chrysler.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:36 PM   #48
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First off, we should not be discouraging members for something that does work on at least some vehicles, and of all vehicles I hear the most success stories with Saturns. One also has to consider that this is a mod that I would think works best in city driving, as the engine will use less fuel at idle waiting at lights, when you can't just press the pedal lighter, as you're not pressing it at all.

This isn't a discussion on fuel line magnets or other stuff that has absolutely no concrete proof that it works, This is about a WAI that in many cases does work.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:03 PM   #49
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I don't doubt a WAI can help in some applications, up to 5% or so. But I've yet to see anyone produce ABA testing results to prove it. Anecdotal testimony from the Johns of the world, claiming 50% improvement based on a non-repeatable single tank, have to be challenged, simply because they're not credible.

I'm averaging ~170% of '08 EPA combined estimates on each of my two cars over 24,000 miles, so I know what it takes to achieve good mileage. John hasn't managed to bring his average up to 120% of EPA. I should be teaching him, not vice versa.
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:35 AM   #50
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neons, they are dodges. nothing dodge has ever made has been about efficiency. maybe back in the late 70s that I am not aware of.

they don't build for efficiency. they build to sell cars. if efficiency was on their mind, they would have something with a HWY MPG of 35+ (which they don't). many of their cars are built with comfort (noise level) and power in mind because that is what sells.

waisting money to me is not spending $10 at lowes when I have to be there anyway. i have spent more than that on a lousy meal at the local greasy spoon.

as far as detuning the engine, nobody has said anything about detuning the engine expept for the original poster in which I have already stated the reasons that doing it that way won't work.

missinformation is all over but to actually see someone go through the process is not missinformation and also doing it yourself. I have put on a WAI and seen the difference. I was also a memeber here when project84 did his setup and saw the thread where he showed how he did it and was there when he talked of his gains.

lastly, we all have different driving routes and the variables can be huge. the man that drives 5 miles a day vs the man that drives 100, all city with stop and go driving (stop lights included) vs all highway running 55ish miles per hour the entire way.

my mileage has gone down quite a bit in the past few months for the very fact that part of my weekly commute has been cut out. I don't do the extra 120 miles a week that I used to. ironically, I fill ony about once very two weeks now and use much less fuel in the process. it isn't always about getting the biggest numbers or who can puff out their chest the farthest. there are always more factors to consider than anyone can account for sitting in front of a computer screen
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