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Old 06-30-2007, 08:03 AM   #281
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I did my last fill for the FEC cycle today. 369 miles 5.5 gallons, 67 mpg. I now have 2000 miles at 60+ mpg. I have proven to myself that I can do that. Average speed runs about 34 mph with the stopping at lights and all. I am usually running 40-55 mph. I tend to run over the 40 mph limit and a little under the 55 mph limit on my usual route. The graph is really leveling off now. It is at a good enough level though.
Having multiple cars and a wife that won't ride without AC I have just been commuting with this car. If I use it for more general use the mileage will fall.
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Old 06-30-2007, 10:23 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Fourthbean View Post
Alright, took a few pictures. Here you go.

I removed my Radiator fan today as I have my coolant gauge installed and two days worth of "baseline" numbers. After warming up (4 miles on the highway) it sits at about 200 degrees, it will spike to 220 at low speeds (40-45) and high load but drop right back down to 200 when I EOC down the other side.

I did not notice a change in the temps today driving to work. Of course there was no traffic (the reason I waited till today). Wednesday I will be driving during traffic, which will be the better test.

BTW, for anyone worried. I have the fan sitting in my passenger floorboard with the 1/2" wrench . So if I see my temps going too high I can pull over and slap it back on.

I did not see a difference in engine response/performance. Could be because my engine is so big the fan didn't do that much to it. But time will tell .
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Old 06-30-2007, 11:34 AM   #283
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I just edited my post, 240 is the next reading on the gauge. I am hitting 220 max.

I actually bought water wetter a while back, though it wasn't for my car . It was for the water cooling system I was building for my computer. Never did use it so I may just stick that in my car if I start getting too hot with my future mods. I think 200-220 is where I should be anyhow.

Quick question for anyone that knows, does antifreeze help/hinder cooling or is it just to raise the boiling point?
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Old 06-30-2007, 11:43 AM   #284
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With the kind of numbers I've gotten I sure hope I'm done driving for today. I totally blew away my previous PR for my daily average. I think it may be tough to beat this any time soon.
1) 83.3-9.2 miles(took the wife to the Goodwill store for their 50% off sale)
2) 111-9.2(Goodwill to home)
3) 82.8-6.4(home to the gas station to fill my 2-gal. can for my attempt at an 800 or 900 mile tank )
4) 112-11.4(gas station to Goodwill)
5) 107-9.2(Goodwill to home)
Average for today: 99.1(new PR) The tank is at 76.3 after 747.5 miles with a VERY stale 2 pips showing.
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Old 06-30-2007, 12:06 PM   #285
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Very impressive!
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Old 06-30-2007, 01:29 PM   #286
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Usedgeo: great stuff!

(You too, Larry, but you know that already )
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Old 06-30-2007, 04:55 PM   #287
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Farfugnugen? / Saturnalia?

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Usedgeo: great stuff!

(You too, Larry, but you know that already )
Thanks and ditto for Larry's great day.

This is just a a little metaphysical rant. With my Saturn I feel like I can sense all the little things going on in the engine and car and they seem right to me. The car offers the economy of a Corolla and the price of a Chevy. I guess I have "bonded" with it. I just can't believe I overlooked them so long.
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Old 06-30-2007, 05:18 PM   #288
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Thanks and ditto for Larry's great day.

This is just a a little metaphysical rant. With my Saturn I feel like I can sense all the little things going on in the engine and car and they seem right to me. The car offers the economy of a Corolla and the price of a Chevy. I guess I have "bonded" with it. I just can't believe I overlooked them so long.
Thanks usedgeo and MetroMPG. I'm still a bit stunned by today's results. As for the metaphysical Saturn thing, I think Saturns are one of the best kept secrets out there for great FE potential.
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:12 PM   #289
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Quick question for anyone that knows, does antifreeze help/hinder cooling or is it just to raise the boiling point?
This is straight from my buddy Chris who runs a mobil mechanic service. it's kinda long but good reading. he also wrenchs on a buddies outlaw car
so he knows his stuff pretty good.

"A 50/50 mix in the radiator is WAY too much coolant! Especially in warm climates. You will rarely ever require more than 30% coolant/anti-freeze, and even then, only if you live within the Arctic Circle. 20% would be more practical. Coolant serves five purposes, none of which keeps the engine cooler. It:

1) Acts as a lubricant for the water pump.
2) Helps protect the hoses from the inside (BTW, save your used coolant for wiping down your tires! It will restore the "new tire" look, rather than the "glazed donut" look you get with aftermarket tire dressings).
3) Helps reduce the electrolysis that naturally occurs in cooling systems that deteriorates metal.
4) Lowers the freezing point of the cooling system mixture
5) Raises the boiling point of the cooling system mixture.

This last one is the most deceptive. A cooling system in proper working order is a sealed system. That means that no outside air can get in, and as the temp rises, the system becomes pressurized. Pressure, combined with no added air, will keep the system from boiling under normal circumstances. By raising the boiling point, coolant actually raises the cooling mixture temp. The info on the sides of the coolant containers brag about being able to reach 260 degrees before boiling over, but guess what: DAMAGE CAN OCCUR AT OR BELOW 260 DEGREES!!! You want it to boil over before it gets that hot! That way you will stop driving, and let the system cool down. Coolant also retains heat, which makes it harder for the cooling system to dissipate the heat, like it's supposed to. Here in California, I never use more than 10% coolant, even when I go to the snow in the mountains. I worked for Bill Elliott in 1998, and was shocked to discover that those cars, with their 900 horsepower engines that drove for 500 miles straight, averaging 7000+ rpms, ran with 100% water in the cooling system. The only thing they use coolant for in NASCAR is to measure the cc's of the combustion chambers in their heads. Because they don't use coolant, they have to use a higher pressure rated radiator cap (28 - 30 psi), but since everything is new, it can easily handle that much pressure. Don't believe the hype: coolant actually makes your engine run hotter!

From the Red Line Oil website:

THERMAL PROPERTIES
Water has amazingly superior heat transfer properties compared to virtually any other liquid cooling medium - far superior to glycol-based coolants. Water has almost 2.5 times greater thermal conductivity compared to glycol coolants. Mixtures of glycol and water have nearly proportional improvement due to the addition of water. Most heat is transferred in a cooling system by convection from hot metal to a cooler liquid as in the engine block or from a hot liquid to cooler metal surfaces, as in the radiator. The convection coefficient of liquids in a tube is a complicated relationship between the thermal conductivity, viscosity of the liquid, and the tube diameter which determines the amount of turbulent flow. Since 50/50 glycol solution has about 4 times the viscosity and only 70% of the thermal conductivity of water, the thermal convection coefficient for a 50/50 glycol solution is approximately 50% of the coefficient for water. Water in the cooling system is capable of transferring twice as much heat out of the same system as compared to a 50/50 glycol coolant and water solution. In order for a 50/50 glycol mixture to reject as much heat as water (amount of heat rejected is independent of the coolant), the temperature differentials at the heat transfer surface must be twice as great, which means higher cylinder head temperatures.

COOLANT EFFECTS ON PERFORMANCE
Under moderate load conditions, each percent glycol raises cylinder head temperatures by 1?F. 50% glycol raises head temperatures by 45?F. This increase in temperature will raise the octane required for trace knock levels by typically 3.5 octane numbers. A car equipped with a knock sensor will retard the timing to compensate for the increase in octane requirement by approximately 5?, which will reduce the maximum brake torque by about 2.1%. Racing vehicles not equipped with knock sensors can advance timing for increased torque.

For maximum temperature reductions use the most water and the least antifreeze possible to prevent freezing in your climate."
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Old 06-30-2007, 08:25 PM   #290
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LxMike, that is what I was thinking. Not sure who told me about it before though. Right now I probably have 30% antifreeze in my system from messing with my thermostat and just putting water back in when the mix leaked out. I will probably just leave it where I can see SOME green in my radiator and be just fine. We freeze down here about twice a year and get down to maybe 25 degrees.
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