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Old 05-03-2010, 08:43 AM   #91
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Xcelplus

Valve seats are the hottest place in the engine (somebody got some figures on how hot?).

It is possible to get oil to the valve seats as a bit gets past the valve guides and seals... and is a common cause of smoking. A little oil also gets in the combustion chamber past the rings... another common cause of smoking.

Thus teflon could end up in the exhaust system.

According to wikipedia the properties of PTFE degrade at 260oC and it's not till 327oC that it breaks down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene

:-)

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Originally Posted by bobc455 View Post
Besides the exhaust, I don't think anywhere in the oiling system gets near 260 degrees...? (Maybe the tip-top of the combustion chamber, but I don't think that would be an oiled surface...)

-BC
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:53 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Xcelplus View Post
What claims specifically?
Specifically, the one I quoted: "The original Slick-50 formula is now known as Xcelplus."
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:56 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theholycow View Post
Specifically, the one I quoted: "The original Slick-50 formula is now known as Xcelplus."
Not to mention Slick 50 used to be about 25 bucks, this stuff's almost $100!

Jim
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:11 AM   #94
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Tufoil does provide four ball ANSI test results, in which they kill the competition by a country mile. It's also reproducible, unlike lab condition tests. I think the Guinness Book of World Records is independent and they proclaimed Tufoil (the PRODUCT, not the ingredients) the "slipperest substance in the world."

http://www.tufoil.com/technology.html

As I mentioned, this really helped my older cars back when (25 years ago) motor oil wasn't what it is today, but Tufoil still has a place in the gas saver's toolbox. And large govt. contracts. And manufacturing uses. All based around the same tech. as AFIK.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:26 PM   #95
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Xcelplus

We have the legal letters from John Bishop who invented the formula on the site.

We also have a chart showing the various names used and dates of those names.

That's all in the FAQ section.

The videos also have John Bishop the chemist who invented the formula talking about the name changes.

We also have the FTC settlement over fraudulent use of the tests on the web site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theholycow View Post
Specifically, the one I quoted: "The original Slick-50 formula is now known as Xcelplus."
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:41 PM   #96
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Tufoil v's Slick-50

Seems the guiness book of records claim is correct:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_grDFHababI...ufoil+cert.jpg

However why not release the full details of what tests were run?

The problem with some of these tests is that they're not really comparable.

Adding Slick-50 to the list of oils is inappropriate... as slick-50 has always been a metal treatment not an oil treatment. Thus any test done on Slick-50 comparing it to an oil is probably meaningless.

This is why releasing full test results would be useful as it ensures appropriate testing is performed... and allows consumers to make informed choices.

Full results, test methods and labs please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug victor View Post
Tufoil does provide four ball ANSI test results, in which they kill the competition by a country mile. It's also reproducible, unlike lab condition tests. I think the Guinness Book of World Records is independent and they proclaimed Tufoil (the PRODUCT, not the ingredients) the "slipperest substance in the world."

http://www.tufoil.com/technology.html

As I mentioned, this really helped my older cars back when (25 years ago) motor oil wasn't what it is today, but Tufoil still has a place in the gas saver's toolbox. And large govt. contracts. And manufacturing uses. All based around the same tech. as AFIK.
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:28 PM   #97
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Xcelplus

The Xcelplus formula is now a concentrate... whereas the old formula was diluted in oil. Thus the new formula treats a ~7L vehicle. The old formula treated a much smaller engine ~3L (or less depending on the size of the bottle you bought).

The advantage of being a concentrate is that it is now compatible with ALL oil types (no oil incompatibilities).

Slick-50 dropped the price of the formula when they changed it from the original formula (I remember the price going down). Their new formula is the same formula that got them in trouble with the FTC ($10 settlement for false advertising). The reason they changed formulas was because of a dispute with their chemist (John Bishop) over pricing (they owed him $10M and didn't want to pay).

There's a video of John Bishop discussing this... look in the tests section. Plus there's a legal document mentioning this in the FAQ section.

:-)

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Originally Posted by Jim T. View Post
Not to mention Slick 50 used to be about 25 bucks, this stuff's almost $100!

Jim
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:06 PM   #98
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Tufoil: 4 Ball ANSI test

The whole point of lab tests is that they are reproducible.

By adding a high pressure additive like chlorine you can easily increase the pressure you can withstand ie. 4 ball test. Unfortunately the chlorine breaks down to HCl (Hydrochloric Acid) after a while and damages the engine.

Don't know how Tufoil achieve their longevity because they don't post any details of their tests or what is in their product.

They have not been sued by the FTC and they have been in business for a long time. Plus their founder (Franklin G. Reick) is an engineer with very solid credentials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_G._Reick

Despite looking hard couldn't find full tests of any of the claims including the 4ball test although plenty of references to tests exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug victor View Post
Tufoil does provide four ball ANSI test results, in which they kill the competition by a country mile. It's also reproducible, unlike lab condition tests. I think the Guinness Book of World Records is independent and they proclaimed Tufoil (the PRODUCT, not the ingredients) the "slipperest substance in the world."

http://www.tufoil.com/technology.html

As I mentioned, this really helped my older cars back when (25 years ago) motor oil wasn't what it is today, but Tufoil still has a place in the gas saver's toolbox. And large govt. contracts. And manufacturing uses. All based around the same tech. as AFIK.
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:16 PM   #99
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Tufoil v's Xcelplus

As Xcelplus treats the metal... and Tufoil treats the oil... the two are actually synergistic (will work together).

Lower viscosity oils improve fuel efficiency because they make it easier for the engine to turn over.

Simplest comparison is to run a 20-50W oil and then next oil change run a 10-40W (or lighter). The mileage often markedly improves. Surprisingly when I did this comparison a while ago the wear also decreased with the lighter oil.

Xcelplus' big advantage over most treatments is that it's permanent.
:-)
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:58 AM   #100
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Xcelplus,

Please be mindful that this site does not allow you to advertise a product through the forums.

We decided to let your prior posts remain since they were directly relevant to the discussion, and somewhat informative.

However when you are asked for substantiation of any claims like this, the burden of proof would still be upon yourself - therefore, instead of just saying "write to consumer reports" you should post a link directly to the article, or post a copy of the article (along with the issue information in which it was published), or a similar method of directly providing the substantiation. And the same with the FAA - if you wish to quote a document, please provide their direct quote (or link) as well as a way that any member of the general public can get ahold of this document (such as a document number, method to contact the FAA to get a copy of the document, and any other relevant information). "Contact the FAA" is NOT a 3rd-party substantiation of your claim. Nor is it acceptable to just say "visit our site to catch the video" - rather, you should post a DIRECT link to your relevant information (such as a post to your link).

So please understand that we made a decision to allow you to violate the rules, and please realize that this will require a substantial effort by yourself to support your claims.

This site receives plenty of wild unsubstantiated claims, and if real substantiation cannot be provided we will deem any related posts to be "spam" which will result in deletion.

Otherwise, if you wish to engage in advertising on the site, please contact the moderators and we will assist you.

Thanks,

-Bob C.
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