water4gas discussion? - Fuelly Forums

Android Users - Coming Soon! - Migrating from aCar 4.8 to 5.0

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-28-2007, 08:47 AM   #1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 618
Country: United States
water4gas discussion?

First of all, Sorry... I'm sure this is a repost.

There is an ad here that I got curious about and now I'd like to hear from the rest of you.

www.water4gas.com

I've heard of water injection and what not, but lets open a discussion about this item, I'd like to hear what everyone thinks of it and the practicality and possibly FE improvements.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...34250583325882
__________________

__________________
John
'09 Saturn Aura 2.4L
'94 Chevy Camaro Z28 (5.7L 6sp)
'96 Chevy C1500 (5.0L 5sp)
'08 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Custom
'01 KTM Duke 2
Project84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 10:11 AM   #2
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 447
Country: United States
Water vapor does help. The whole steam expanding thing. I mean, what ruled railroad before cars were even viable? Steam. I would not expect to double FE, and I would certainly not pay much for it. Water Injection has been around since before most of us here. Also the website itself makes it look like a scam.
__________________

__________________
slurp812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 10:18 AM   #3
Registered Member
 
GasSavers_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 513
Country: United States
Send a message via MSN to GasSavers_Red
It looks like a brown gas generator. Basically it uses electrolysis to separate water into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas, which is then either pumped or sucked into your intake and then burned. Any increase you see is the result of that gas. It does take a fair amount of power to split a water molecule, so there is no free lunch.

There have been a few threads about such systems discussed here in the past. You'll find quite a bit of info on the topic.
__________________
GasSavers_Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2007, 06:09 AM   #4
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 298
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
It looks like a brown gas generator. Basically it uses electrolysis to separate water into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas, which is then either pumped or sucked into your intake and then burned. Any increase you see is the result of that gas. It does take a fair amount of power to split a water molecule, so there is no free lunch.

And guess what? No process is perfect. So it is probably going to take more usable energy to split the water than you are going to get back. And as for water injection, this is not going to give better fuel economy, at least not alone. The chief purpose of water injection is to reduce detonation. This allows you to run an increased compression ratio without needing more expensive, higher octane gas - especially on engines that are turbocharged or supercharged. But if your engine already runs fine on 87 octane, and if you have NO intentions of increasing compression, then it is of NO value whatsoever.
StorminMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 09:05 AM   #5
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15
Country: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by StorminMatt View Post
And guess what? No process is perfect. So it is probably going to take more usable energy to split the water than you are going to get back.
Matt are you talking about battery drain?

does this concept work or not?
anyone?
severedgein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 03:30 PM   #6
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 170
Country: United States
Sorry but the laws of physics simply mean there is a negative outcome to the energy equation : It take more energy to produce hydrogen by electrolysis then you get from burning the end product.

Water injection is a different idea. Originally for high boost aircraft engines the water acts as a detonation suppressant as mentioned above.
It also helps cool the incoming fuel / air mix which can add a measure of performance.

By the way Sir Harry Ricardo wrote about this some time in the 1920's so it isn't new.

Pete.
GasSavers_Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:16 AM   #7
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15
Country: United States
where is the power loss though, battery or engine itself? if its battery, then you can simply recharge and reap the benefits of better milage. if it simply does not provide better milage, that's a completely different story.
severedgein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:44 AM   #8
Registered Member
 
ZugyNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 587
Country: United States
H generators work...but getting a decent amount of gas for the energy used is an issue. Also you need to over ride the mixture control system to see some decent mileage gains.

This isn't an area I would try to start from scratch with. And there are some poor H generators out there that they will sell you.


This group might have the answer?

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/workingwatercar/


I've seen reviews of the various H gen systems for sale...do some searching?

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo...ogen_Injection
__________________
Leading the perpetually ignorant and uninformed into the light of scientific knowledge. Did I really say that?

a new policy....I intend to ignore the nescient...a waste of time and energy.
ZugyNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:51 AM   #9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15
Country: United States
well, this is relevant to this, and also another issue i'm looking at, but is there a way to monitor and control the voltage sent to the ecu by the exhaust o2 sensor and control that for this situation or others where you necessarily will have a very lean burn and don't want the ecu to compensate?? are there regulators out there with a dial or something similar that could basically be tuned on the fly?
__________________

severedgein is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Location awareness! moxfyre Fuelly Web Support and Community News 11 03-16-2011 01:36 AM
Vacuum, Timing and Fuel Economy: in Non-Computer Assisted Engines Matt Timion Automotive News, Articles and Products 1 06-12-2008 06:56 AM
Earth's "vital signs" in bad shape: report theclencher General Discussion (Off-Topic) 6 09-14-2007 06:44 AM
Lisa has LEDs now GasSavers_Diemaster General Fuel Topics 10 10-06-2006 08:17 PM
Any foreign language speakers here? Matt Timion General Discussion (Off-Topic) 12 09-19-2006 03:13 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.