Condensator Installation/Reporting Thread - Fuelly Forums

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Old 07-06-2006, 09:42 AM   #1
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Condensator Installation/Reporting Thread

This is a pre-report to receiving and installing a Condensator on my 1995, 1.0L Geo Metro (though as of this time, Condisales has not confirmed that he has received my shipping information).

Referring back to March 20, that tank was 37.014 mpg (I'm using my Excel sheet, so my numbers may be slightly different than my Garage/Gaslog).

You can see how a steadily rising temperature increased my FE:

Spring/Summer FE Breakdown:

Mar 20: 37.014

Apr 6: 41.496

Apr 20: 41.747

May 4: 44.415 (first attempts at CODFISHing)

May 13: 42.960 (tested higher revving shift points)

May 30: 50.266

Jun 20: 53.902

Jul 5: 55.191

Temperature Breakdown:

Mar 20:
no recorded temps

Apr 6:
no recorded temps

Apr 20:
no recorded temps (similar to Apr 6 by "feel")

May 4:
9.735°C/49.528°F (similar to Apr 20 & 6 by "feel" - CODFISHing main difference?)
Highest Temp: 24°C/75.2°F
Lowest Temp: -3°C/26.6°F

May 13:
11.288°C/52.318°F
Highest Temp: 21°C/69.8°F
Lowest Temp: 1°C/33.8°F

May 30:
15.979°C/60.762°F (high tank starting temps, low ending temps)
Highest Temp: 31°C/87.8°F
Lowest Temp: 6°C/42.8°F

Jun 20:
16.245°C/61.241°F (consistent mid-range temps)
Highest Temp: 27°C/80.6°F
Lowest Temp: 7°C/44.6°F

Jul 5:
20°C/68°F
Highest Temp: 28°C/82.4°F
Lowest Temp: 11°C/51.8°F

I think it would be fair to say that if I had not tested the higher revving shift points that the May 13 tank possibly could have been in the 46-48 mpg range.

The July 5 tank probably could have been higher, but I have been lugging all my tools around since I was working on the car at various times. This was probably the equivalent of carrying around an extra passenger.

My point here is that temperature is obviously creating a trend in my mileage numbers. As temperature averages go up or down my mileage trend should appear similar and at least be in the same range as previous tanks at similar temperatures.

I do not think my mileage has plateaued yet. I think I can expect temperature increases through July and August, with a drop beginning towards the end of August.

As for my driving-style, I think it has become pretty consistent. I could be CODFISHing more aggresively, but as it is I have specific points in my routes where I always perform the same driving techniques. I am comfortable with my driving method at this time due to the amount of traffic and lights that I deal with regularly.

Near the end of August will probably be the best time to install and test the Condensator. If temperatures are dropping and the Condensator actually works then mileage should remain higher than the current trend.

Of course, if this happens it still will not necessarily mean that there is anything special about the Condensator. It may simply mean that a catch-can works just as well.

However, we will see what happens. Will post pictures when I get it and maybe even pull it apart (as much as possible) to see what's inside.
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:31 PM   #2
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Guys, let me know if there's any details I should include here. I want to establish as much of a baseline as possible and eliminate as many variables as possible to make the data as conclusive as can be.

As I've stated, I think that instant, A-B-A testing may be completely inconclusive for this product. Long term will be the only way to even make semi-accurate guesstimates.
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Old 07-06-2006, 03:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95metro
As I've stated, I think that instant, A-B-A testing may be completely inconclusive for this product. Long term will be the only way to even make semi-accurate guesstimates.
You may be right. The downside is that long term tests also introduce countless other errors.

I think without a device like the supermid or a scangauge short testing is next to impossible.
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Old 07-06-2006, 03:25 PM   #4
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Yup, exactly. Obviously temperature is the big one - which is why I've included all this temperature trending data. With the Condensator installed I think if I'm within ?2 mpg of my previous tanks at a given temperature range then that could probably conclude an impact of zilch from the device.

As for the SuperMID, I'm hoping to have one by the end of August or September so I'll be able to attempt some A-B-A tests anyway.
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Old 07-10-2006, 07:51 AM   #5
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Took a look at the PCV system in the car on Saturday. It's a bit of an odd setup, plus I have no clue when the PCV valve was last changed. I tried to remove the valve, but it's held in place by a bracket. When I tried to remove the bracket I stripped the screws (the metal was really soft). So, I guess I need a screw extractor.

Anyway, the PCV system does seem a little odd and I have no idea as yet as to how I will mount the Condensator (even though Condisales still has not responded to confirm one is being sent).

The PCV valve is mounted directly to the intake manifold. A Y-adapter hose is fitted to the PCV valve. One part of the Y is connected to the valve cover, the other runs to the air filter housing (which is obviously why I get some oil in there - I wondered about this previously). I will get some pictures eventually.

On another note - but still related to testing - I ordered a SuperMID from Yoshi. I asked for delivery around the middle of August.
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Old 07-10-2006, 07:59 AM   #6
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Dude, schweet. I can't wait for you to be metro'ing all over the place. Is this thing sposed to replacethedamn pcv system or just supplement it like the catch can does?
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:06 AM   #7
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Supplement it as far as I know, so I guess I'll have to splice in some hose between the PCV valve and the Y-adapter hose.
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:03 AM   #8
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Picked up my Condensator at the PO today.

I'll post my results in this thread if OK...so it can be found at the same place.

I'm testing it on an '83 Tercel 4WD wagon with the 3AC 1.5 L carbed engine.

EPA mixed mpg is 29.5 mpg...my realworld summer baseline is about 30 mpg.

Shutoff the fuel heat, plugged the ozone air bleed, regapped the plugs to OEM specs, did not use acetone, xylol, GP7 fuel additive.

Only thing now out of spec is the ignition timing...which is advanced so that it will only ping full throttle at around 1200 to 1700 RPM in 4th or 5th. This engine needs the extra power from the ignition advance.

Got the Model A that has an air bleed (for carbed engines) which is supposed to cool the PCV gases to help condense them.

Have it intalled and the car idles OK...was afraid the air bleed might make the idle rough...as this car is sensitive to vac leaks.

Installation was fairly easy...all parts needed were supplied...hose...fittings...clamps, etc. Have it sitting on the frame right behind the radiator...about the only area with enough room and it's close to the the grill for the air pickup tube.

Next tank will just be a test tank as there is still a little additive in the tank...will give it some time to readjust.

Will use a moving average kind of test...where my "official" results are determined by the avg of the last 3 tanks of gas. This can be plotted out in a spreadsheet also....showing the mpg for each tank and a 3 tank moving avg.

I could do an A-B-A test by using some tubing to bypass the Condensator...and also a 30 to 55 MPH "power" test where I time how long it takes at WOT in 5th gear.
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugyNA
Picked up my Condensator at the PO today.

I'll post my results in this thread if OK...so it can be found at the same place.

I'm testing it on an '83 Tercel 4WD wagon with the 3AC 1.5 L carbed engine.

EPA mixed mpg is 29.5 mpg...my realworld summer baseline is about 30 mpg.

Shutoff the fuel heat, plugged the ozone air bleed, regapped the plugs to OEM specs, did not use acetone, xylol, GP7 fuel additive.

Only thing now out of spec is the ignition timing...which is advanced so that it will only ping full throttle at around 1200 to 1700 RPM in 4th or 5th. This engine needs the extra power from the ignition advance.

Got the Model A that has an air bleed (for carbed engines) which is supposed to cool the PCV gases to help condense them.

Have it intalled and the car idles OK...was afraid the air bleed might make the idle rough...as this car is sensitive to vac leaks.

Installation was fairly easy...all parts needed were supplied...hose...fittings...clamps, etc. Have it sitting on the frame right behind the radiator...about the only area with enough room and it's close to the the grill for the air pickup tube.

Next tank will just be a test tank as there is still a little additive in the tank...will give it some time to readjust.

Will use a moving average kind of test...where my "official" results are determined by the avg of the last 3 tanks of gas. This can be plotted out in a spreadsheet also....showing the mpg for each tank and a 3 tank moving avg.
Was that 30 MPG with the heated fuel, additives, etc. If so you just changed quite a bit of suff and your baseline.
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:22 AM   #10
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Aren't air bleeds illegal due to emissions?
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